McLaren 650S vs. 12C: What has changed?

"boxrocket" (boxrocket) 02/17/2014 at 11:55 • Filed to: McLaren, 12c, 650s, p1, woking, supercars

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So by now most of us have seen the various !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! of McLaren's new model, the 650S, and there seems to be some controversy regarding the styling. Some are underwhelmed, some are upset, and others are disappointed they didn't go further. Most of that seems to stem from folks not entirely understanding what the 650S is, believing erroneously that it is an entirely new model from the ground up, rather than what it actually is, a 12C with a few mild updates. To help everyone understand what I mean, I'll show you.

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First, the front. It's a 12C with some P1-inspired touches for the headlamps, side indicators, and air intakes, but the hood, license plate area, mirrors, and cabin remain from the 12C:

Here's the P1 for reference. Notice that, essentially, just the headlamps, negative area for air intake (but not the actual air intake shapes themselves) and fenders are similar between the 650S and P1.

Onto the front corners then.

Clearly we can see that the 650S is an evolved 12C: again the hood, fender shape (except for the leading edge), mirrors, license plate area, length, shape, etc. are the same. We see that the side air intake between the door and rear wheel has been changed from the two-"blade" design on the 12C to a single one that blends more into the body line, similar to an R8 or Lamborghini, for better or worse. Compared to the P1, the previously-mentioned headlamps and bumper shape are shared, but that's mostly it. Perhaps Woking had too many headlamps left over from the P1 project that they don't expect to use in future repairs?

Let's move onto the side profile now.

Again, it's a 12C with some modifications. Again we see the side intake differences, and the reshaped headlamps, but that's about it. The 650S even shares the same cut lines and shapes for the side intakes, just one piece instead of two. Compared to the P1, the door lines and cabin shape are very nearly (or actually) the same (they use the same carbon fiber floorpan, IIRC).

And so we end at the back.

There is essentially no difference at a glance between the 650S and 12C, save the blacked-out part shared with the 12C GT Can Am Edition pictured below it. This comes as no surprise, as the 650S and 12C are mostly the same car, after all. I wish they would have put the P1's tail lamp "rope" shape on the 650S (see below), as the horizontal bars that the 12C and 650S use are rather boring, but may save cost and complexities as they're likely universally legal.

I won't bother comparing the cabins, as it's mostly just a difference of materials, and the availability of the P1's carbon fiber seats.

So, in summary, the 650S is a 12C with some front-end bits from the big brother P1, and some minor updates here and there. Were I of the means, would I get a 650S over a 12C? Perhaps, but it would be in McLaren/Papaya Orange, and it'd have to be the Spider.

Victorious Secret > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 11:58

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The P1 is sexy.

The 12C is sexy.

The 650S will also be sexy.

Class dismissed.

GhostZ > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 11:58

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It's a 10% price increase for a 9% power increase and improved active aero.

Honestly? That's pretty good. I don't think this is anything like a "new" model, but for a refresh/performance version of the 12C, it's great. You can probably still spec a 12C to be more expensive that a stripper version of the 650S.

exizeo - still loving fourza > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 12:00

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In my list, it would be something 12c->F12->P1, in terms of 'exotic' sports cars I would choose in their respective classes.

The 650s looks too funky...._.

Audi-os, amigos > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 12:23

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I'm glad they kept the McLaren Logo headlights from the P1.

It's the coolest styling/branding move by a carmaker in a long time.

boxrocket > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 12:30

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I still sort of see this with this picture. The P1 looks more intimidating, perhaps because of the hood air vents.

Stephen > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 13:35

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This is literally what they did.

RX > GhostZ 02/17/2014 at 13:41

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Every 12C will be more expensive than the base 650. These are cars where multiple options are checked. People shopping for a $250k car like all the customization options and another $50-100k isn't much. And the sales guys are quick to point out that the secondary market loves all the insanely overpriced carbon trim and whatnot.

McChiken116 - Patrick H. > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 13:42

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Is it replacing the 12C? Or going along with it?

NoahthePorscheGuy > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 13:42

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650S spyshots

Dieter > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 13:45

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650S is a failure is all aspects. Not impressed right now with Maclaren, seams that doing every thing have baked and quite frankly a lazy ass job. I might like the P1 since there is no other Hyper car that can match it for style and speed. But for the rest of the line up I find them quite boring. Then again they are English.....

JR1 > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 13:47

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Really this isn't any different than the way Aston Martin does things. Refine refine refine and finally you have perfection. It works great for Aston so McLaren should benefit as well. Let's just hope they don't use Chinese plastics.

Erzhik Tem > NoahthePorscheGuy 02/17/2014 at 13:47

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Asshat parking.

Kookanoodles > McChiken116 - Patrick H. 02/17/2014 at 13:48

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I think it'll slot between the 12C and the P1.

Jayhawk Jake > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 13:55

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It appears to have gotten happier.

Kmccauley > McChiken116 - Patrick H. 02/17/2014 at 13:56

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My question too. Seems like it would be a solid refresh to the 12C, or this could be a special MSO one-off.

For how calculated and technical McLaren is, it's weird if they were to have a lineup with the names Mp4-12C, 650S and P1, with no coherent numbering system. (Seems... Ferrari-like, actually)

saabstory | fixes bikes, breaks cars > Audi-os, amigos 02/17/2014 at 13:57

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I can't think of another brand who could do this and not have it be excruciatingly gaudy and disgusting.

RyanFrew > JR1 02/17/2014 at 13:57

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Am I the only one who hates Aston's strategy? Don't get me wrong, I love Aston Martin, but I find it to be a virtual guessing game between DB this and V8 that.

Art > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 14:01

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So its the evolution of the 12c

Stradale > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 14:03

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This is just a refreshed 12c. I have no idea why they are pushing this "650s" so hard, its dumb. Now while the updated 12c looks good it looks exactly like what they did, which is slap some P1 design elements on it. It would have looked much much better if it was a ground up design. I think they should have just did a traditional refresh and not pull from the P1, save that for the next gen 12c that can be designed from the ground up to have the P1 design elements.

oldestyoungn > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 14:04

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Crap I can't stop seeing the 650S as a Joker face.

Dr. Mantis Toboggan, M.D. > McChiken116 - Patrick H. 02/17/2014 at 14:08

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The way I see it, it's a weird situation like Subaru's Impreza and WRX. Yes, the WRX is based on the Impreza, but it's significantly different enough that they give it a different name and say it's a full rank ahead of the Impreza. The 650S is clearly 12C-based, but it's different enough that they give it its own ranking.

Sttocs > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 14:09

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Looks like this guy to me.

JR1 > RyanFrew 02/17/2014 at 14:13

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I think there is a lack of innovation with their strategy but their cars are great and beautiful so I can forgive it.

boxrocket > McChiken116 - Patrick H. 02/17/2014 at 14:15

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It's a slight step above the 12C, as it's several thousand dollars/euros more than a 12C. There are still the P15 and P13 models to come to round out the lineup.

boxrocket > Jayhawk Jake 02/17/2014 at 14:17

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I was thinking that!

boxrocket > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 14:20

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Yay! I got FP'd!

Well Spoken Waffles > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 14:21

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i need to own a mazda just so i can do this

for Michigan > NoahthePorscheGuy 02/17/2014 at 14:23

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P1

12C

12C

lonestranger > Audi-os, amigos 02/17/2014 at 14:25

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FYI, the 12C has logos inside the light.

RyanFrew > JR1 02/17/2014 at 14:30

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Agreed. I guess I'm just saying I'd rather see the Ferrari approach than the Aston approach come out of Woking. Maybe it's a British thing. Lotus' cars have all looked pretty similar over the past decade as well.

Pessimippopotamus > NoahthePorscheGuy 02/17/2014 at 14:41

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Those must be placeholder mockup images that McLaren used in-house.

tge-89 > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 14:50

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Don't hate on me, but with this new 650S model and the upcoming 911 Turbo fighter, there really isn't a point for the 12C. It sits in the middle of both and there isn't much of a gap between the cars. If I were to buy the entry level McLaren, for a bit more money I could buy the 12C. If I wanted to buy the 650S, I could save some money and buy the 12C, and an ECU tune and exhaust would match the performance. So what's McLaren's play? Will they remove the 12C from the lineup? IMO, I think McLaren should have made the 650S a P1 without the hybrid stuff. The same body and styling as the 650S but with the 7xx horsepower to make it a Ferrari F12/Aventador fighter and offered a "performance aero package" for the 12C to beat the 458 Speciale.

NoahthePorscheGuy > for Michigan 02/17/2014 at 14:56

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no.

650s

650s

650s

McChiken116 - Patrick H. > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 15:11

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Is this not the P15?

OhAlbanianKar > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 15:18

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So the 650S to McLaren is like the Virage to Aston Martin?

NG22 > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 15:43

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So nice to see a well informed person discussing this car. So tired of the trolls spouting their ignorance.

JR1 > RyanFrew 02/17/2014 at 15:45

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I think it will come eventually, but the company doesn't have a parent company so I would give it some time before the Ferrari level of innovation occurs

oldestyoungn > Sttocs 02/17/2014 at 15:46

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I'd never seen that before but I have agree it's more accurate than the Joker.

Gosh. Freaking 650S looks like a dog.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 15:52

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Nope.

Nope.

I was under-whelmed by the P1's styling. An over-styled mess like many new Ferraris and Lamborghinis. (McLaren being an organic style mess, Lamborghini being a cubist and angular styled mess, and Ferrari somewhere between the two...)

These cars get headlines, but they are going to look dated, not timeless or classic.

McLaren F1 is timeless, and almost instantly classic.

MP4-12C isn't as timeless, but it is subtle, and not a mess. Maybe not as dramatic as some would like, but I think 12C will age better.

650S is basically a 12S re-fresh to bring it in line with the new P1 "corporate design".

I count 12C with Jaguar F-type and Aston Martins, as great modern british car designs.

What I don't like about P1 has now been applied to 12C to make 650S... so now I am on the negative side of "meh" about the styling of P1 AND 650S.

I would get a 12C... but if I could have anything, but it HAD to be factory ordered...

I would now go with an R8 5.2 V10 Plus over 650S, or a Porsche. I would get a 918 over a P1, as well, despite how much respect I have for McLaren's technical prowess. For that much money, these new Maccas are just not gorgeous, and have thrown away the subtlety of the 12C, and abandoned the gorgeousness of the iconic F1.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > RyanFrew 02/17/2014 at 16:00

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If they were poorly received, they would need a drastic change.

They are well received, and IMHO, the best looking front-engined cars on the market.

Porsche has it's segment, too... and they likewise don't make drastic changes for the sake of change, only changes that are improvements, and evolutionary.

If it ain't broke, don't dare fix it.

MP4-12C wasn't broke, 650S didn't fix the aesthetics... it broke them. P1 may be the fastest mega-hyper-car ever built, but it isn't gorgeous.

Fixing things to chase styling fads is the easiest way to ruin a good thing.

boxrocket > McChiken116 - Patrick H. 02/17/2014 at 16:23

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To my knowledge, it is not. The P15 and P13 are yet to come, each with a vastly different price and competition point, e.g. one will be a 911 fighter in the $100K+ range, and the other to slot between the 12C/650S (which are around $200-300K) and the P1 (which is around $1M), so possibly anywhere in the $300-800K range, but more likely closer to $400-500K to not step on the P1's toes. That would set it against the Aventador and several Ferraris better than the 12C/650S, since IIRC the 12C's top speed is similar to a Gallardo/Huracan and 458 (200-210mph) and the Aventador and higher-tier Ferraris are closer to or exceed 220MPH.

dogisbadob > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 16:28

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Why not just call it 13C or 12D?

boxrocket > tge-89 02/17/2014 at 16:28

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I quite agree. I'm not sure if the 650S is supposed to be limited-release from MSO (McLaren Special Operations, basically anything beyond the factory order) like the 12C HS, which would make its performance bump more worth the price increase, or if it's to gradually phase out the stock 12C and replace it in the lineup. We'll have to wait for the official Geneva announcement to know for certain, I suppose.

Sttocs > oldestyoungn 02/17/2014 at 17:29

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Here's an even better 650S:

I see F430 in this guy here:

Looking for pictures of dogs smiling has, incidentally, made this one of my best days in recent memory.

oldestyoungn > Sttocs 02/17/2014 at 17:37

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This needs to be a thing. We must find pictures of dogs smiling/frowning/any expression and match them to cars.

Nick Walker > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 18:25

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This really blows, and I will explain why. Now anyone who sees a McLaren 650S on the street is going to just be massively disappointed. Everyone's first thought will be "Oh my GOD!!! A McLaren P1!!! My life is complete!".... and then they will happily slash their own throat and fall to the ground. As they lay there bleeding out, they will see the car pass by and realize that the car they saw was instead a McLaren 650S, not the mighty P1. Their last moments of consciousness will consist of anguish, knowing that they have sacrificed their own life for a false god.

Ok, maybe that was a little excessive, but the fact remains that nobody will ever be entirely happy to see a 650S because everyone, in any situation, would rather it be a P1. And because it looks like a P1, it is basically a rolling middle finger to every hopeful little kid in the world.

Fuck you McLaren 650S... Fuck... You!

boxrocket > Nick Walker 02/17/2014 at 19:48

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But if it's limited edition (like the 5 HS models, for example) then it would still be cool to see.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 19:53

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Hey Raph! A real window! Woohoo!

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > RyanFrew 02/17/2014 at 19:56

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For some reason I will forgive the 911, but wish Aston could find something new. Maybe after 40 years of Astons, I will feel differently.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 19:57

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I FUCKING HATE the Mazda smile. I want to paint a big Heath Leger 'Joker' face on the hood and the grille can be the mouth.

ZeGermanPwa > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 19:59

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So now I spend a million grand on an ultra-rare hypercar which shares the same front fascia with a car thats not even half the price. Way to go!

Dst > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 20:22

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Largest shit eating/smug grin ever.

majster > NoahthePorscheGuy 02/17/2014 at 20:25

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Thjeese are fejk

jimjamjimmy > oldestyoungn 02/17/2014 at 20:34

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i keep seeing chris cunningham's aphex twin video guy when i see the P1 or 650s.

Aphex Twin - Windowlicker

hykers > dogisbadob 02/17/2014 at 20:41

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12 is for model 12 in the line-up and c is for carbon

RyanFrew > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 02/17/2014 at 21:05

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I think the difference is that the 911 is a model, not an entire brand. Who cares if the 911 hasn't changed much over the past 50 years? Neither has the Beetle, Wrangler, Mustang, and so on. Discerning a Cayman from a 911, though, is easy. All of Aston's models look too much alike.

boxrocket > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 21:38

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Or maybe this

:

boxrocket > for Michigan 02/17/2014 at 21:40

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If you read the article or any of Jalopnik's 650S material, you'd know that the 650S shares the 12C's body, including the rear, and modifies the front, side intakes, and a few other choice bits.

Nick Walker > boxrocket 02/17/2014 at 22:10

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As cool as a P1, though?

I think not, and that's the problem.

DocV2 > boxrocket 02/18/2014 at 00:26

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Once you see it, it can be unseen.

GTO62 > saabstory | fixes bikes, breaks cars 02/18/2014 at 01:46

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Random slightly-related (maybe) factoid: the Mazda MX-3 door windows intentionally had the same shape as the headlights. The car was designed at a time that Mazda was in search of a logo and being sued by Renault for their first choice (the one shown in the picture). I agree it would have made no sense to shape the headlights after that logo. On the other hand the whole headlight assembly of the (now reduced to ashes) Mazda Furai apes the winged M logo and works very nicely!

.

sumfoo1 > boxrocket 02/18/2014 at 07:38

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If you want a convertible get a lambo.

Let super cars be super and have your mall cruiser elsewhere.

for Michigan > boxrocket 02/18/2014 at 08:09

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No way! I never would've guessed that. Thank you so much for pointing out that obscure and hardly-known fact, I shall be forever in your debt.

Johnnyma45 > boxrocket 02/18/2014 at 14:41

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I could have sworn, SWORN that I saw this on the road. Got all JIMP when I saw what looked like a P1 in the oncoming lane as I had not seen that before in person, and when I drove past it and saw the 12C ass, was like oh I must have been mistaken. Anyone know if they have test vehicles running in North Dallas?

boxrocket > Johnnyma45 02/18/2014 at 22:59

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It's possible, but I doubt they would have had what was until recently a secret prototype much outside of Woking, and almost certainly not covered in camo. Now, that said, it's possible McLaren's Special Operations (MSO) who does post-factory but factory-covered mods, did a P1 front on a 12C for a single customer, and when other owners or pending owners discovered that possibility, the 650S was born as a production model. As many very-rich folks (usually in the oil industry) are in and around Dallas, it wouldn't surprise me that it were a possibility. You could always ask on the McLaren owners boards. They tend to be a friendly and open bunch. I hope to join their ranks someday. Alternately, some P1 prototypes used the 12C's rear or taillights as disguise during preproduction testing and customer demos, so that may also be what you had seen, but again, probably would have had camo on it. Do you recall if the sides looked more like a 12C or a P1?

leonard-brandon > Nick Walker 05/21/2015 at 19:42

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A true believer will know the difference between a P1 and a 650s from the front. So the elite followers will live on, only the mediocre fanboys will kill themselves.

Gitonga > boxrocket 06/19/2015 at 23:22

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Yea those p1 tail rope laps are so sexy I wish I could just buy a 650s and put them there... Maybe if I talk to a mechanic nicely I hope he can do it.... I mean mclaren must have some spares lying around right?